@Jennifer Yzelman :

BPMN, Data Flow and VMware but @Kiron Bondale hit the nail with this:

“ if you want us to act as (free) evangelists for Miro with our clients, it would make sense to provide full access to all the shape sets…”

Michael

@Robert Johnson :

This is one of the disappointing moments for me - to see a company with such an intense and great community and really by heart miro evangelists (Thank you @Kiron Bondale for that word) gets heard with 0% 

But I hope that the last words of @Jennifer Yzelman showing few steps into the direction to think about this …

Michael

AWS, Data Flow, VMware and BPMN are the minimum toolkit, for me. But@Kiron Bondale clearly pointed out the matter:

“ if you want us to act as (free) evangelists for Miro with our clients, it would make sense to provide full access to all the shape sets…”

Hi Jennifer - appreciate you jumping in on this chat. I’m a cloud consultant, so Azure and AWS would be needed for me.

@Jennifer Yzelman - My first thought when you ask “which shape packs you are mostly interested in” is that you may be entertaining the idea of creating further layers of segregation between packs and plan type. If that were the case, I would suggest that the easier path forward here is to just open up all diagram packs to all paid plans.

Smart Diagramming is not a good enough reason to expect Consultant Plan subscribers--the same individuals you had in mind to be champions of Miro when you created the Miro Professionals Network--to upgrade from one or two (or even five!) paid seats at $15 each to a minimum of $100/month for the Business Plan - I still would prefer the Consultant Plan over the Business Plan as I can create unlimited teams. Plus Consultant Plan subscribers have additional collaboration tools that Business Plan subscribers do not. And… surely you would be hard-pressed to find consultants who would even even need SSO.

An unnamed individual summed this up as follows:

“Smart Diagramming should be widely available on any plan as it is marketshare play against Lucid, not a revenue boosting upsell to current users.”

The better use of time & effort here would be to:

1. Remove the current restriction and open the feature up to all paid plans.
2. Remove the current note about “Business and Enterprise Plans only” from the Smart Diagramming panel.
3. Update the pricing matrix.
4. Move on to making better features for all paid plans.

All of that said, I have never been a product owner or had to make decisions such as these, so I could be out to lunch.

Dear community members,

Thanks again for all of the additional feedback. 

First and foremost I’d like to emphasize that we appreciate your advocacy for Miro and would like to genuinely thank you for that.

Please allow us some time to carefully to evaluate all of the inputs and while we evaluate our decisions. 

As soon as we have updates, I’ll get back to you. 

In the meantime, feel free to contact me in case anything else comes to mind regarding this topic.

Kind regards and have a great weekend ahead,

Jennifer

@Jennifer Yzelman  
Couldn’t agree more with @Robert Johnson  -- these particular features should be a market-share play against Lucid - this discussion can help reinforce that decision. They should be available for testing for free users… so that people/teams can consider making the switch.

As a person on the consultant plan - there really is no upsell available for me.  I pay for 2 seats @ $12 / month. $24.  I like the flexibility to add team members as I grow. I like the Consultant features- esp the many teams I can make for engaging with clients. If I jump to Business in order to get BPMN stencils … I have to buy 5 seats minimum at $16/month. That’s $80 per month. AND… Business doesn’t allow multiple teams/workspaces… so, what I’ve been told, is that customer tech support would have to consolidate all my teams/those boards down into one team, eradicating all of that organizational division.  So here’s the math:  $80-24 = $56/month extra for “premium smart diagramming packs” -> MINUS “unlimited teams/workspaces”.  (its +$68 for a single-seat consultant)  So… there really is no pathway for consultants in this position to access this feature without making a very irrational financial and operational decision.

If this is meant to be a lure from ‘team’ to ‘business’ … I can maybe see that … but you’ve effectively iced out the consultant plan from this feature. Which, while we’re here; why does “Business” not have unlimited teams / workspaces? … is this because that’s something you wanted to distinguish Biz from Ent.?  For companies paying 16/month X 5 minimum… it seems this is a bizarre limitation…  But its not my situation, so I can’t be sure.  

And furthermore, this very same issue will appear again and again with any product you position in this fashion as being only available to Biz and Ent.  It won’t be until I reach 4 or 5 seats on my Consultant plan that I’ll think long and hard about jumping to Business, BUT… it will always be a mixed bag of upgrade (premium smart diagramming stencil packs… etc) and downgrade (loosing my unlimited teams). So … I go from a 2 person Consultant to … Enterprise?  So, your product and pricing team will need to really sort this upsell strategy out… Its currently underdeveloped WRT the position of the Consultant plan.  

Suggested Options: 

1. Make ‘Business plan’ 1) no user minimum (currently 5), and 2) full feature parity(+) with Consultant plan: result:  I upgrade my two seats from Cons. to Biz $12->$16 (+$4X2=$8/month(not $56)), because I really want your Business-segregated extra features, and I don’t loose any features (unlimited teams/workspaces).  This makes sense! 
2. Another option … if you’re feeling like making money off premium add-on ‘assets’: Make premium asset packs a-la-carte add-ons, one-time payments. Or small additions to your monthly sub fee. This may be much harder to operationalize than option 1. 

This decision makes absolutely ZERO sense. We should have ALL of the diagrams on the Consultant plan. The Business account would be $960 a year for one person. 

And we are introducing customers to Miro who potentially would want a business subscription. The Miro Management should be ashamed of this decision because it truly makes ZERO sense. 

Not to mention - they say like 5 times and she even says it too that it is for PAID plans. Timestamp 53:53 They both say not available on FREE available on PAID! 

https://academy.miro.com/pages/map-and-diagram-in-miro-webinar?utm_medium=email&_hsmi=183993081&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9dnyaAOAE6Uf6kasMRkByQMu1RszPnAElpH9RdBZ7z7921toG3RZKr3x7Czyp6DYnx1Ow9GpyPcv1EuycRXAtlXJyejQ&utm_content=183997050&utm_source=hs_email

This really should be available FOR ALL PAID PLANS! It’s not a diagramming software without standard diagram sets. All of the ones they offer I need. Lucid chart BLOWS MIRO AWAY in this area for only $96 a year. Miro is $960 at this price structure. 

I cancelled my Lucidchart subscription to move over to Miro 100%. I guess I have to sign up with them again. 

This decision rivals some of the worst business decisions I have ever seen a company make. Not to mention essentially false advertising in their webinar.

The consultants are Miro’s best sales people. Just COMPLETELY Unbelievable. 

I’m not a consultant, but advocated for the business to adopt Miro as its diagramming tool of choice. We’re a Team account with around 30 seats.

I’ve just discovered that the AWS icons are moving into Diagramming from Dec 1st, which is not available to the team tier and I’m furious. Doubling our annual bill to keep a feature we already have is outrageous. 

I can understand the strength of feeling from the consultant crowd, but you’re not alone. This is very sharp practice.

I left it as long as I could, but I’ve cancelled my subscription. I can’t afford to lose access to Azure and AWS icon packs. Other services allow free access to Azure and AWS diagramming packs and templates.

If you look into Lucid - most of the symbols are free and you can coulourize each of their symbols - this is not possible in miro

The diagrams that you’ll get there are lot more - and everything you see is part of a free version - even now more than miro ever can offer:

• With mirroring
• Colourizing symbols
• Shadows for your symbols

Why wait longer for less functions in miro -
I still use miro but for other functions
I use other tools because they are offering more - as long there are offering more …
(maybe this will change)

But if I would need diagraming symbols as main part of my daily work I would use an other tool because of the flexibility of the other tools

Michael

Hi Team, as a software engineer who is the consultant tier user to Miro, I’m currently exploring some new technologies such as azure and AWS, and expected to draw something on Miro to describe my understanding of Azure/AWS, but the fantastic shapes designed for Azure/AWS are NOT enabled to the consultant tier user.

I just dont understand the logic behind this decision to block AWS Azure Diagraming to Consultants?

If you block the feature at least let them upgrade to “Pro Consultant” and open the feature for couple more bucks a month . 

Right now you want me to play 100$ a month and hold 4 empty seat.

this makes zero sense… 

Hope you will take our opinion seriously, and give reasonable solution .

Thanks 

Just ordered the consultant plan and was disapointed to come to the same conclusion as the rest on this board. Please Miro make provide a single user plan that is usable.

Thanks

@Jennifer Yzelman

Hey , can we get any update/news regarding this topic?

Thank you ! 

Hi everyone,

I’ve just been accepted into the Miro Professional Network and I noticed the BPMN and Data Flow diagrams are only available in Business plan. That makes it pretty much useless for me, as I’m doing process design for my clients and diagraming is the main tool. Miro is a great tool, but unless Business features are included in the MPN I’m afraid I’ll have to go back to Lucidchart.

Alternatively, Business plan is way too expensive because I have to pay for 5 sits when it’s only me using it.

Miro Team, any updates on this topic?

Thank you

Hey all:

A little bird (inside Miro) bird told me that as of tomorrow we consultants will be able to use the diagram icon sets. Fingers crossed

@Brian Royce - There was only ever one resolution 

I have to say that I am very disappointed in this move by Miro to neglect Consultants and go for the big money in Enterprise. What really perplexes me is, what do they think we do? Clearly they don’t think we diagram all the time… or they do and somehow think it would be valuable to strong arm us into a square peg of a Business plan.

I have been building software for many years and this is a huge miss for Product Management at Miro. It’s also a huge opportunity for their competition. Consumer software is a tough business and you can’t afford to alienate loyal paying customers that have been faithful. Its brand suicide. Each unhappy customer tells 10 others. They will gradually start feeling the impact. I sincerely hope they can right this decision, before my team and others find another solution that fits. I’d really like to continue using Miro, but I am struggling seeing that path right now. The feature set I signed up for doesn’t exist anymore. ( the feature details of this have been outlined very well by others above)

Jason- 

Agreed!  I was in the process of converting and training my Architects from Lucid to Miro, but Dec 1st happened and I am now regrouping.

Hi @Alexei Barabash, thanks for your question. You can expect an update within the next week or so. 

Kind regards

Jennifer

Hi all,

I want to thank you again for your constructive feedback. It has helped us reimagine our diagramming offer. Starting December 16, Consultant and Education plans will have full access to our Smart Diagramming solution, including several advanced shape packs (AWS, Azure, BPMN, Cisco and Data Flow).

With this, I will close this thread. If you have any further questions, please feel free to react to this Community post or, if you'd like to learn more about Diagramming on Miro, check out our mapping and diagramming help center for all kinds of tips, tricks, and resources to improve your diagramming process. 

Happy diagramming!
Turner